Tip: Workaround for subsequent project actions

Folke

10/25/2013 12:57

I keep all subsequent (dependent) project actions in Next, regardless of whether they will become Next, Waiting or something else once the preceding tasks have been completed.

To keep them as much out of sight as possible I have them all set with No Context and No Priority. All my true Next and Waiting actions have both of these (My Someday actions have only Priority, but no Context).

This means that when I group my Next actions either by context or by priority or by deadline these subsequent actions will appear at the very bottom where they are easy to ignore (white bar on the left - all others have a priority color).

When I want to review my projects to see if there are any additional subsequent actions that can be turned active (Next, Waiting etc) I either go to the project itself OR I group my Next list by Project. When I select such tasks (for Next or Waiting) I always give them both a context and a priority (usually medium) as part of the "re-processing".

A bit crude, perhaps, but simple, and it works.

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• Stephen2  (积分：160)11/23/2013 09:31
  1 floor

  Hi Folke, I've recently migrated from Nirvana to here - are you still using Nirvana and keeping an eye on Doit or have you migrated?
  
  I too use this same workaround. When they implement the manual sorting of projects (even without parallel/sequential functionality) it will help improve this area as well.
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• Folke  (积分：2425)11/25/2013 07:45
  2 floor

  Hi Stephen2 (I assume you must be Stephen :-) Good to see you :-)
  
  Well, I copied all my tasks to Doit a while ago and have chosen to do the updating of them here ;-)
  I am holding paid subscriptions in both places until next fall, though.
  
  What about you?
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• Folke  (积分：2425)12/19/2013 17:55
  3 floor

  Update:
  
  Since my initial post, actually today, after the new update where the Context lists are grouped by Box, I have modified the workaround as follows:
  
  - I have moved the subsequent project tasks to Someday
  - I still keep subsequent project tasks at No Priority, and review those (in order to select new possible Next/Waiting actions) whenever I complete a project action, just as before. The white color tells me what they are (not really Someday/Maybe).
  - I still use Low, Medium and High priority for the true Someday/Maybe tasks depending on how often I want to review them: http://help.doit.im/group/topic/55
  
  The advantage of this modification is:
  - I can use Contexts freely now, even for subsequent project tasks and for true Someday/Maybe tasks, without having to add/remove Contexts (was not workable with the old context sorting)
  - I can use all sorting modes for the Next list without ever having to see the "still impossible" project tasks there (but this also means I have to go into the specific project to promote new tasks to Next/Waiting; or I can use a saved filter called Subsequent which lists all of these on one page grouped by project)
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/10/2014 20:09
  5 floor

  New experiment:
  
  I have now split up my subsequent actions across both No Priority Next and No Priority Someday in such a way that I have the bulk of them in Someday, but if there are some that I very soon will be able to start (just a little bit left on the current Next actions whose results are needed for the subsequent actions), and/or if it would be meaningful to at least begin to gear up for them mentally (or play with them experimentally) then I now move them over to No Priority Next instead, where I see them more often, and where I can still see easily (by the white color) that they are not really possible quite yet, but soon.
  
  So far it seems quite good, but we shall see.
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• Stephen2  (积分：160)01/11/2014 08:58
  6 floor

  Hi Folke, sorry for the slow reply, I haven’t been checking this forum as much as I used to check the old Nirvana one - that will have to change.
  
  I am still a Nirvana subscriber but haven’t used it for over a year (been trying all the other apps before I commit to Doit). I renewed Nirvana to keep the discounted price and was hoping there might be some changes in the works. I can’t see that happening and even if there were big changes, they would be in the web app rather than iOS. You can say what you like about the recent changes to Doit but the new iOS app is solid.
  
  As I guessed in my earlier post, the manual sorting has improved my workflow greatly. Like you, I have been experimenting with methods to work around the lack of automatic promotion of next actions and the manual sorting has allowed to devise my latest workflow:
  
  (none of these rules apply to the Someday list)
  
  All actions get a context, regardless of there status (this saves time later on when they become available) - if it’s a waiting item that I’m not waiting on yet, it will get a Office or home context (see no. 4 for more on this)
  All actions that are available for me to complete get a medium or high priority
  All actions that are not available for me to complete (including waiting items, subsequent projects actions and agenda items) get a low priority
  This is the important bit; nothing goes in the dedicated Waiting list - I use a Waiting context instead. This allows me to view my Next list by project so I can see the whole picture for each project. Using the standard Waiting list removes Waiting items from this view and it’s easy to think actions are available when there is actually a Waiting item blocking it, leaving the only way to get a true picture of a project is when viewing each project individually which I don’t do on a daily basis.
  When doing my weekly review I promote project items simply by changing the priority to medium or high - if a project has two or three items that I want to get done this week (even if they are sequential) I will promote them all so that I don’t have to always be thinking about the next action while I’m working
  
  Using this method, when I’m in my Office, Home or Errands contexts, I just ignore all low priority items. When I’m in my Waiting or Agenda contexts, they’re all low priority and easy to see when needed.
  
  Mostly, I view the Next list by priority and star the medium and high items as needed throughout the day. Occasionally, I’ll do a quick review of my projects my changing the Next list to group by project as described above.
  
  I’m happy with this setup, it sounds complicated but in practice it allows me to get stuff done without having to overthink things in between tasks.
  
  What do you think Folke, does it even make sense? :-)
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• Stephen2  (积分：160)01/11/2014 09:00
  7 floor

  Sorry for the stream of text, the rules above were numbered but sadly this doesn't seem to be supported in this forum. I can't see any way to preview or edit the post either :-(
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/11/2014 12:11
  8 floor

  @Stephen2
  
  I think your setup makes a lot of sense :-) In fact, it reminds of how I used to do it in RTM. And even the colors are the same :-) I also used to have waiting and subsequent as low (turquoise), (and even ticklers, because RTM did not have a tickler feature).
  
  The priorities in RTM and Doit are great - neat, clear and discreet, and sortable - so very useful for whatever purpose you need them most.
  
  It seems we both have invented a new GTD category - "Almost Next" ("Just-around-the-corner-Next": "hot subsequent") LOL. I agree it is handy to have them close by. They could be as little as 30 minutes work away, so it does make sense to have them within viewing distance.
  
  How come you do not use the white priority? Error catching? (I use it for subsequent, but I then regrettably miss the capability to check for data entry errors.)
  
  As for keeping Waiting mixed with Next I am a bit torn. I both like and dislike both methods and have difficulty making up my mind. Besides all the obvious pros and cons, I can confess that I am often both lazy and sloppy and I have no need for a track record of checked-off tasks, so I often ping-pong tasks all over the place without completing them, for example imprecise tasks like "Agree X with Y" which I toss back and forth between Next and Waiting depending on who's got the ball right now, but I retain the Context, usually @Person or @Device, depending on whether the steps of the dialogue are taken real-time (phone etc, requiring personal availability for both parties simultaneously) or not (email etc., whenever it suits me). I like to group by Context, and I pay special attention to the @Person context as this requires more adaptability on my part, and this would not be equally easy if I had to use a Context for Waiting (but fully doable, of course. I could use tags, for instance). Another personal aspect is the fact that I sometimes have huge numbers of Waiting Fors - sometimes three times more than Next. Then it takes grouping or tagging/filtering to reveal the Nexts, but if I have them separated from the outset I do not need to do that. So I use the Waiting list for now, but this is something I often reconsider.
  
  How do you use your Agenda context? As a "real-time dialogue" indicator or as a "batch-up/on-hold" indicator - temporarily on hold until I talk or write to that person for some other reason as well? I have been struggling with finding a good way of implementing the latter. I guess I could define yet another Context for it, but since you can only have one context per task it takes a lot of testing to see what works in practice, and how to combine it with tags. I'd be very interested to hear how it works for you, if that is how you use it.
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• Stephen2  (积分：160)01/11/2014 12:58
  9 floor

  @Folke
  
  You guessed correctly, I don't use the white priority purely to allow me to check for errors. I realise using it would give me an extra priority level as my current method effectively means I have only 2 priorities, medium and high.
  
  Doit's one context per action is similar to OmniFocus and I like the way it can focus my thinking; I have an agenda context for regular meetings and one for each person that I have to work with regularly. For other agenda items I keep them in my next list. For example, if I need to speak to my boss about something and it can't wait until my scheduled 121 with him, I'll add 'Call boss re monthly finance results' to my Next list with the @Office context. If it can wait until the 121 I'll add 'Discuss monthly finance results' to the @Boss121 context.
  
  When viewing the Next list by project, how do you deal with the fact that there are items missing? A project will have an item at the top of the list that is white (using your method), how do you know not to 'promote' it to a doable next action?
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/11/2014 13:52
  10 floor

  @Stephen2
  
  Yes, I, too, have come to like this "rigid" way of defining contexts. I have not used it since I gave up paper in the previous millennium and simply had to decide which to-do list to put each item on, so I had forgotten how refreshing it can be for the mind to decide on just one single list to put each item on and make it work. I have been spoiled by apps that let me tag tasks in more ways than one, which is also an immense plus, of course.
  
  I particularly like the way the "rigid" Contexts allow me to keep my lists (Today, Next etc) neatly grouped in a meaningful way which reduces the need to always have to click some filter button. I do not like my lists having too many groups, though, so I have defined only five Contexts all in all: http://help.doit.im/group/topic/23#comment-25
  
  I use Tags for more detailed contexts, e.g. individual people that I have many interactions with, and for Effort (merger of Energy/Time required).
  
  Overall, I would like Doit's Tags and Contexts to be more "coordinated", for example be able to use Contexts as quick Tag button filters (I do not like to have to fill in a whole form for a saved search every time I want to look at something in particular, nor to have to save it and clutter my filter list). One easy way to make better quick filtering possible would be to let Goals, Projects and Contexts have inheritable Tags (inherited by all tasks inside). Then, depending on how you tag these things, you could quick-filter your Next list in all kinds of ways, e.g. by area, type of project, combination contexts etc. This is something I have been trying to convince Doit to do, but I am not sure they have been convinced.
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/11/2014 14:06
  11 floor

  @Stephen2
  
  Items missing: Well, with my latest method, I see the "hot subsequent" in white in the Next list along with the real Nexts, but if it is dependent on a Waiting for action I cannot see it. This does not matter much to me, because I usually prefer to check my projects via Goals, then the specific Project. I hardly ever group my Next list by project (too many groups; I get seasick). But you are right: If you would like to do a "promotion" review using the Next list, then it is better to have it all in Next - even any ticklers that block the subsequent action.
  
  What I would want - but I cannot quite define how it should be done - is a Goal view (if I click a Goal in the left menu) which would allow me to view the whole Goal almost as if it were a project, but still with the individual projects and subsequent pipelines etc clearly distinguished from each other somehow. Any ideas?
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• Stephen2  (积分：160)01/11/2014 17:03
  12 floor

  I understand what you mean about the Next list viewed by project, it does get busy. I'm not 100% convinced that my method is bullet proof but it'll do for now. As for goals, I haven't tried them yet so I'm not sure how effective they will be for me.
  
  I agree with your point about the tags; I don't use them as I'm trying to simplify where possible and, without the quick option to filter on the fly, I don't think they'll suit my workflow.
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• Stephen2  (积分：160)01/11/2014 18:38
  13 floor

  @Folke I was just tinkering with the Next list following some of your working methods, do you view the next list by Context? If you do, is it possible to have them sorted by priority in each context? Also, if viewing tasks in the actual context on the sidebar, can they be sorted by priority? I assumed this would be automatic.
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/11/2014 22:02
  14 floor

  @Stephen2
  
  Yes, I often view the Next list by Context, and also by Deadline, which may sound strange for a person like me who never sets up target dates etc for anything. But I do in fact sometimes have a rare few tasks that have real objective deadlines (hard "ultimatums" or hard promises), and I do not mind to see those few at the very top (even if the due date is far away), and the rest sorted by priority beneath.
  
  Regarding the sorting, they messed it up completely on Dec 22, and it is hard to predict how they are going to fix it. It used to be automatically sub-sorted by priority in all grouping modes, but when they introduced the manual mode this disappeared completely, and tons of users have complained about that. I now manually sort everything into priority order. And I have suggested a nice way to combine automatic and manual sorting here: http://help.doit.im/topics/2770
  
  Yes, the now compulsory manual sorting applies not only to the Next list but also to the Next box in Contexts and Projects. I hope they fix this soon. It is tedious to HAVE to do it manually all the time, but it is very nice if you CAN..Manual sorting would be strongly required only in projects (e.g. if they introduce a box-agnostic group for "subsequent" in each Project, but to some extent even if they do not, to at least have the tasks in each box in a roughly realistic order.) And also in the Today list for people who want to sequence their tasks for today.
  
  I like manual sorting, but it was a pity that they did not implement a useful default (priority) to base it on.
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• Stephen2  (积分：160)01/12/2014 05:56
  15 floor

  Thanks for that Folke. I was almost certain that the boxes used to sub-sort by priority but, as I wasn't a heavy user of the old version, I couldn't have said for definite. You just confirmed it.
  
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