Thoughts on grouping and sorting in the new version

PRO

Folke 12/19/2013 13:14

Platform:All

Thanks for a great update! I like the new improvements:

- I very much like the manual reordering capability
- I very much like the fact that inactive projects are now listed under a separate heading under its Goal
- I like the fact that that Contexts are now grouped by Box

I also have a few minor suggestions:

1) Priority sorting option for "false" projects

I very much like the fact that the tasks in projects can now be sorted manually within each Box, because "real" projects tend to have some "direction of flow", and when all is finished they will be completed.

But I would like to ask you to consider also having a priority sorting option for the individual project. This was (and would continue to be) very useful if you also use projects as containers for single actions that do not actually belong to a real project. For example, I make use of the project feature to also group single actions by "role" (AoR). I currently have nine AoRs defined, and each of these has its own "permanent project" where I keep the single actions for that "role". (cf. http://help.doit.im/group/topic/60 )

2) Drag handles

No problem for me (now), but maybe for new users (and for me too initially). Dragging tasks into the left menu requires grabbing the drag handle, just as before, but the manual reordering within each list requires grabbing the main part of the task. The fact that the drag handle exists makes people believe that you are supposed to use that for rearranging also. It would be more intuitive to always use the drag handle (or grab the task anywhere).

(It is also a bit inconsistent that Goals have drag handles, when in fact you cannot drag them into the left menu.)

3) Projects grouped by Goal

When I do my forward-looking "creative" reviews I like to do it goal by goal, and move from project to project within that goal. It would be very useful, when I have the list of projects visible in the main pane, to have them automatically grouped by Goal, with headings, and then manually sorted within each Goal.

And a back button - for getting back to the main projects list or to a single goal's projects list, depending in where I came from - would be nice, too.

A perhaps bigger thought, maybe not possible now : It would be very, very nice (a comforting sense of control) to have the projects list open as a narrow extra navigation pane between the left menu and the main pane that contains the tasks of a given project. Then you would always "know where you are" (and also, there would be no need for a back button - you could click another project straight in the extra pane.)

4) Inactive Goals?

For those who like to think far ahead, maybe an "inactive goals" category would be useful, too, behaving pretty much like inactive projects do. This is just a simple and spontaneous idea - I don't know how much I would use it, but it would seem a "consistent" feature to have.

Folke post on 12/19/2013 13:45#1

PRO

Oh, forgot to mention

5) In Scheduled, I very much like the new grouping of the "mother tasks" into daily, weekly etc :-) Very, very good.

But all the other sorting options have been removed for simplicity, and for the most part this is good. Sometimes, though, especially when I am double-checking all my repeating tasks it is easier to locate them project by project etc. Would it be possible to have both options? Or is there a way to combine the two sorting options? For example, such that when they are grouped by project they are visibly sub-grouped by frequency? (This would be neat also when looking at a project as a whole, coming from the left menu).

6) And an "old" request: I am almost ashamed to mention this again, but maybe now is a good time to consider replacing the "group by" menu at the top with individual buttons? The regrouping feature (of the Next list etc) is so extremely powerful and useful (and fast; it requires no new download) that it is actually a great pity to slow it down with a whole extra point and click every time. I use it lots and lots of times every day.
Folke post on 12/19/2013 18:09#2

PRO

Oh, please forgive me if I bring up one more "old" request that is also very closely related to all this:

7) Grouping by Goal in Next list etc

I have an awful lot of projects, and grouping the Next list by Project is a bit too "tight" for my taste (too many headings, and too few Next actions in each). It would suit me perfectly if I could group the Next list (and other lists) by Goal instead, which would serve the same kind of need but at a "higher level".

Thanks for your patience.
wendy_only post on 12/20/2013 10:50#3

PRO

@Folke

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback.

Q:1) Priority sorting option for "false" projects
A: We will consider sorting logic seriously,especial for priority sorting option under a specific project.

Q：2) Drag handles
A: We will improve this UI to make it better to understand and more convenient to use.

Q:3) Projects grouped by Goal
A: We are considering to support it now.

"And a back button - for getting back to the main projects list or to a single goal's projects list, depending in where I came from - would be nice, too. "
Could you please tell me what's the page do you point to? Is it the specfic project viewing page?

"It would be very, very nice (a comforting sense of control) to have the projects list open as a narrow extra navigation pane between the left menu and the main pane that contains the tasks of a given project. "
You can click project straigh in the left project list now. We may not support it to show in 3 columns.

Q:4) Inactive Goals?
A: We need do a research on it. How many goals do you have at most cases? Now you can drag and drop the "inactive goals" down.

Q:5) In Scheduled, I very much like the new grouping of the "mother tasks" into daily, weekly etc :-) Very, very good...
A: Do you mean that you want to group by Projects in Scheduled?

Q: 6) & 7)
A: We have recorded. Thank you for reminding us.

Shall you need any help or have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me back.
Thank you for your support!

Best regards,
Doit.im Team
Folke post on 12/20/2013 12:28#4

PRO

@wendy_only

Thank you for being so responsive. I will try to answer your questions:

Q1 and Q2: Great :-)

Q3: Projects grouped by goal, back button, extra pane etc:

Great that you will consider grouping the long projects list by Goal :-)
(or at least show the goal's name next to the project name, like how you show projects and contexts for tasks)

Back button: Yes, correct, I meant on the specific project viewing page, which I probably came to either from a specific Goal list (or from the long projects list in the main pane). Of course, I can already use my browser to right-click on a "dead" part of the screen and then select Back, so this request is not a top priority, but it would be much more convenient and intuitive to have a back button (It could even be called "Back to Goal overview" etc).

Third pane: I totally understand that this is not easy, and it would also makes those views look very different from all other views. Would it be possible, and perhaps easier and better, to do something similar in the left menu instead? For example, when we click a specific goal in the left menu, that the left menu itself then expands under that specific goal and shows that goal's projects? Then the back button would not be needed, and the left menu would still not be too long if only one goal at a time is expanded. This might be a better possibility than having three panes. What do you think? (In that case, you would not even need to use the main pane for listing the projects, and could use that pane for a consolidated view of all the tasks in the goal, similar to a normal project view, grouped by box. How about that? I think that would be great - to be able to see the goal as a whole as if it were one large project, and still be able to click into each project as usual. Wow :-)

Q4: Inactive goals, Low priority. The suggestion was based mainly on consistency - to make it similar and familiar to how projects are managed; neat but not necessary.

I currently have 5 goals only, and do not plan to ever have more than about half a dozen. it is easy enough to manage manually. If I ever create an inactive (future) goal I can always mark all its projects inactive to hide their tasks from the active lists.

Q5: Grouping of Scheduled: Also a low priority. I can always go the each project and look. But yes, I was referring to grouping by project (or goal).

Q6 and Q7: Thanks a lot for considering :-)

All in all, I think the Goals feature is great and that it also holds further potential both for creative/convenient planning and for convenient list grouping in general.

Thanks again :-)
hntopper post on 12/20/2013 15:42#5

PRO

@wendy_only and @folke

Sorty options for tasks within a Project:
I understand why @Folke wants more options for how to sort tasks within a Project. For his process flow and interpration of GTD, his request makes a ton of sense and can be useful for not only him but others. I on the otherhand, would like to see the sorting options for tasks within a project to be expanded to included: Box, Context, Priority, Start Time, Deadline, and then No Grouping. I think these options provide the most flexiblity and will be satisfactory to the broadest group of users. More me personally, I do not want my tasks grouped in any order except how I manually order them. That way I know what's absolutely next on the list. But while that method works for me, it may not work for others (such as @Folke). If you expand the sorting options to how I describe above, it will appeal to everyone.
Folke post on 12/20/2013 23:56#6

PRO

@hntopper

Only the first suggestion (#1) in the original post is about tasks within projects. The suggestions are mainly about how projects are listed and grouped within their goals and on the left menu etc.

As far as tasks within projects are concerned, I am not sure if there is any real contradiction at all between any of our ideas.

In brief, as far as tasks within projects are concerned:

- What we have right now we might call "Manual within Box" sorting. We previously had "Priority within Box" sorting and a whole bunch of others.

- Manual sorting is any form at all is totally new to Doit, and they have just launched a version that applies manual sorting almost everywhere. I do not think anybody really thinks that this is a final or perfect solution, but implementing manual sorting at all is often described as something quite difficult, and I think we ought to congratulate Doit on this first step in a new and potentially highly rewarding direction.

- You are are saying that you would like to have a fully manual "No grouping" option, where tasks from different Boxes can be mixed in any order. This is definitely necessary if tasks are to be listed in an order that corresponds (more or less) to the sequence in which tasks in a real project will need to be completed. I have no objection at all. On the contrary, it is something I have suggested myself several times. This capability is particularly necessary if automated progression is to be implemented one day, but as you correctly point out it can serve as a visualization that aids reviewing even if progression is non-automatic. This requires, IMO, some graphic distinction (icon, color, whatever) between tasks from different boxes in order for you to see which tasks are next actions, waiting for actions, calendar or tickler actions etc. (but in a first phase maybe this graphic could be left out).

The ability to strictly sequence the tasks applies especially to the tail of each project (all the subsequent, inactive tasks that are "on hold" and would belong to GTD's so-called "project support", which are not be listed at all on any list/Box). The front-end tasks (those that are currently active and listed on the main lists/Boxes) are not necessary to list in any particular sequence, since they are all active in parallel right now (they could even be shown by Box, or manually/jointly).

A simple solution would be to just add a sequential, manually ordered mixed section called "Inactive" or "Subsequent" etc., but I believe this is a separate topic. It has been dealt with in other threads, and I have understood that Doit will look into all this sometime after this Christmas release is over.

- I (and maybe you? definitely many people) also want to be able to "misuse" the projects for many other things than real projects. People also use them as "containers" or "folders". Some use them as containers for books to read and all kinds of things. I use them for AoR single tasks (as well as for real projects). For all these other types of use I believe that "Priority within Box" is a better option. What I have suggested here is that with the new poeerful manual capabilities it might be possible to make "Priority with Box" sorting even more powerful than before by allowing manual rearrangement of tasks within each priority stratum, while letting them land in the right stratum automatically.

- You are also mentioning all kinds of other sorting options that you think other people might want, but which neither you nor I are asking for (e.g. by context, or by priority mixed across boxes etc). If others really want that, I am sure that neither you nor I would try to stop Doit from satisfying those requests.