Another workaround using Priorities - non-next Actions in Projects

khaberz

01/08/2014 06:56

Since I am already using High-Priority as my "Star" workaround, it made sense to use other priorities for workarounds too (Using them to actually indicate hard-coded priorities is something I thankfully got away from since using GTD, or rather my own flavor of it).

Since doit.im - as most other digital GTD solutions - has no good implementation yet for separating out Action in projects that are not yet truly actionable (the old parallel/sequential project debate), I found using Low Priority as my separator for non-next actions to be quite useful.
As I set up a project and add tasks, or as I go through my reviews, I try to identify tasks in my project that are not actionable yet, e.g. because they depend on preceding tasks to be completed. These Actions are getting Low Priority. I can now filter these out and only see actionable tasks.

2 disadvantages:
- Manual effort in assigning and maintaining the appropriate priority
- I can't filter only the Next list, thus getting e.g. scheduled tasks in my Filter result, which I do not want to see. I'll add a Feature request to include the list in the Filter criteria.

Otherwise, this works nicely for me.

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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/08/2014 13:19
  1 floor

  @khaberz
  
  I use the same workaround - except I use No Priority instead of Low Priority for the "subsequent" tasks. http://help.doit.im/group/topic/43
  
  I cannot think of any other way in Doit to deal with the "subsequent" tasks. But I cannot quite make up my mind if I prefer them as No Priority Next or No Priority Someday (or even No Priority Waiting, haven't tried that yet) - it is wrong either way, of course, but the question is where they disturb me the least and still are easy enough to see when I want to see them.
  
  What I think they should implement is an "inactive" ("subsequent") group (box) within the project, only visible within the project, to which you could drag these tasks and order them manually into sequence. This has been suggested. And this could later be automated such that one task at a time pops out of "subsequent" when there are no active tasks left.
  
  BTW, I totally agree with you that hard priorities is not advisable, i.e. a hard "sequencing" or "ABC phasing" to the effect that you "must to these ones first and only after that can do these other ones", So I have chosen to use the priority feature as a "review priority", i.e. "must consider these first / more often" - but not necessarily do them first (because the final choice will depend on the situation). http://help.doit.im/group/topic/55
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• khaberz  (积分：230)01/08/2014 14:44
  2 floor

  @Folke - Ah, I didn't realize you had posted pretty much the same thing :-)
  
  I still want the non-next actions in Next because otherwise they would mess up the other lists (Someday/Waiting) when I want to review those. Keeping them in Next gives me the best options to:
  
  - Have a "real" Next list when I want it (Filtered out)
  - See them in the correct context of their projects when I need to (Unfiltered Next list) to decide which tasks have become actionable.
  
  I hope they implement my suggestions of adding the list to the filtering options, that would make this even cleaner for me.
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/08/2014 15:05
  3 floor

  @khaberz
  
  Yes, they should improve the saved filter criteria - Box and Goal are both missing, as well as Boolean combinations.
  
  But for the purposes of the real problem, this filter enhancement is still just a workaround. They should have a proper solution for it. Subsequent tasks do exist and do deserve adequate functionality.
  
  And yes, as for our present workaround. I first had them in Next and did not like it. I now have them in Someday and like it maybe even less, because they end up so far down. Maybe I'll move them back to Next. It sucks either way.
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• lisa_alway  (积分：530)01/09/2014 12:40
  4 floor

  @Folke @khaberez
  
  I thought I would mention that I have just started using activeinbox add on for my gmail, gtd sorting of email, etc. I am just getting into it and so far so good. I thought I would point out a feature I really like, I have mentioned it to doit.im support as well. Next steps, it's thier subsequent action answer.
  
  Basically, you read an email, then you need to do something with it, so example, an email asking If I and my partner are available for a legal counsel meeting on a particular date. I have several actions here, I need to check my diary, my husband needs to check his, then I also have to wait for 4 different other people to confirm they can all make the same date before I can officially confirm this will be the date. So, I can then while reading the email, type in above it in the next action dialog, email colin to make sure he checks his dairy for proposed council date. Now, I can either leave it there, and move this email to waiting for, and check back, where when I go to the waiting for folder, when i look at the emails listed in gmail, underneath the subject in the view window, i see this next step as a reminder! I can click on it directly from there to action it, make a note etc. You can also have a list of next actions in order, and tick off as you go.
  
  I am mentioning all of this as in another post from support, they were asking if people new of a gtd task app that dealt with subsequent actions properly, and it is early days in my usage of it, but so far it seems like a good idea. I am wondering if it would work well with doit, as a method to follow.
  
  
  
  See the excerpt from their website explaining: or go to the webpage: (this was actually a note about it being in their latest version which is the current version, but is relevent)
  
  http://www.activeinboxhq.com/blog/2013/07/05/coming-this-month-activeinbox-5-pre-register-now-to-get-early-access/
  
  from webpage:
  
  Notes AND Next Steps
  ...
  But much much more importantly, we’ve added in a new Next Steps feature. This is a great way to summarise – in an actionable vocabulary – the things you have to do for a long conversation.
  
  And, your Next Step appears in the Active Results, underneath the Subject. Which in practice is like being able to edit the subject, as it makes scanning and prioritising that much easier.
  
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/09/2014 14:37
  5 floor

  Lisa,
  
  I am not able to determine the extent to which this has bearing on the discussion about subsequent (not-yet-active) tasks within projects. Would you please explain?
  
  Apparently (the impression I get) is that your app lets you treat an email as a GTD project and lets you add several actions to it (just like you can in Doit or in other apps). Now, if some of those tasks are dependent on some of the others being completed first, and therefore cannot really be considered yet, then those are the ones we have been referring to here as "subsequent" or "dependent" or "inactive" or some similar word. Does your app manage to keep those well out of sight, so that you do not confuse them with those that are in fact perfectly possible to do right now?
  
  Another question: Can you enter tasks and projects independently of email in your app, and thereby eliminate the need for a separate todo app such as Doit? Or is it only usable for tasks and projects that were initiated via email? If so, how do you find it to now have to work two sets of GTD lists in parallel - for example, both a Doit next actions list and an activeinbox next actions list (and maybe two starred lists and two Waiting for lists)? Or how do you deal with that?
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• Stephen2  (积分：160)01/11/2014 09:25
  6 floor

  @khaberz I feel your pain, the filters in Doit are an excellent power feature (similar to Perspectives in OmniFocus) that are rendered almost completely useless by the inability to filter by box.
  
  You stated that by keeping the non-next actions in Next it allows you to see them in the correct context of their projects (sorry if this is not what you meant), how do you feel about Waiting items not showing in the Next list when viewed by project? I find this confusing. I have posted a method which allows me to work around this in the thread that @Folke started above.
  
  @Folke I agree totally on your way of describing what priorities means to you, reviewing rather than doing, and this has helped me greatly recently. Thanks :-)
  
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• khaberz  (积分：230)01/13/2014 03:26
  7 floor

  @Stephen2 Your understanding of what I am trying to achieve is correct. I am trying to see all of MY actions in the context of their project as well as other actions in my Next list - so that I can make adjustments about their order and Priority (Using Priority to determine what is actionable).
  
  I am not using the Waiting list in a pure GTD way. Most of the actions I delegate stay in my regular lists because I am usually responsible for following up and ensuring it gets done. So a delegated Task in my Next list represents my Action to follow up and confirm completion. I am using Waiting only for Actions that will be triggered by someone else and are not my responsibility until then.
  
  For example if my boss tells me "Once I am finished with this slidedeck, I will need you to review it - I will let you know when it's ready", that goes into my Waiting list, and I do not need to regularly see this for my Reviews.
  If I am asking a member of my project team (My main Job is Project Manager) to provide me documentation that I need for a deliverable of the project, I need to follow up and ensure it's done. It's not my action to write the Documentation, but I keep it in my Next list, because ultimately I am responsible and I need to follow up and ensure it's done. I hope this makes sense :-)
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/13/2014 07:46
  8 floor

  @khaberz and @Stephen2
  
  Is it possible that what you (we) would really need is a more convenient way to view our projects?
  
  It seems that there is a desire somehow to view all of the most frequently needed aspects of the projects in one convenient list. Such a list might comprise Next actions, "Almost Next" actions (subsequent but just around the corner), current Waiting For actions, perhaps nearby ticklers? - but which excludes,other subsequent actions and repeating mother tasks.
  
  It gets a bit tedious to open each and every project for the things we often want to see, but on the other hand some of these things do not really belong in the Next list.
  
  I have been vaguely dreaming about a Goal view. Maybe a special Goals view would be be the right place to put together the most frequently relevant fact without drowning in detail?
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• Stephen2  (积分：160)01/14/2014 13:38
  9 floor

  @khaberz the way in which you deal with Waiting items explains your acceptance of the Next list's behavior of moving them from the Next list in project view.
  
  @Folke and @khaberz have any of you used OmniFocus (Mac and iOS)? It has a project view that does exactly what I think we all need, it lists every project with every item for that project under it, regardless of what context or state of availability that item currently sits. The problem is that Doit is trying to make the Next list (when in project view) a pseudo Project View. It just doesn't work, hence all the workarounds.
  
  The answer, in my opinion, would be to develop Doit's own existing project view so that each listed project can be expanded or collapsed as required and when expanded, show every item for that project.
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/14/2014 14:02
  10 floor

  @Stephen2
  
  I'd like to be able to expand and collapse them as you say (I actually even suggested that once to Doit), but essentially you can get almost what you say today. You can click into a project and see all its details; you can click into it either from the long projects list or from the short projects list in each goal. And then back out again, and into another project. Etc. But it would be smoother to expand it in line.
  
  Another important super-simple feature (that I have also suggested without success) would be to have the long Projects list grouped by Goal.
  
  No, i have not tried OmniFocus. Sorry.
  
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/14/2014 14:21
  11 floor

  But in addition to that I would like to see each goal in more detail than just a list of projects, as I described in another thread. For me, I feel disoriented when looking at just one single project, unless I am planning that particular project in minute detail, and for those occasions the present project view is OK. And conversely, when reviewing my stuff I often feel a lack of coherence when I just see the consolidated Next actions isolated, or the consolidated the Someday isolated etc. without seeing what other kinds of items are going on (Waiting etc) in the whole related group of projects (each goal). I like to review things one goal at a time (I have 5)..
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• lisa_alway  (积分：530)01/18/2014 12:52
  12 floor

  I have been thinking about all of this lately too, and was thinking of the way I think, I would like to see subsequent tasks better. does this gel with what you are all saying above, or do feel this is wrong? I am not quite sure:
  
  I would really like to use subtasks in a more powerful way, as others would I believe, but the current implementation, means they are not reliable and very easy to lose, so many opt not to use them.
  
  Currently I only feel safe to use them for items on a list etc, not as tasks, things that actually need to be done, so if I want to buy printer paper, ink, pens, etc from the store, I will put these on a "buy at office store task", then these would be each subtask underneath. This is great for this as when I go to the store I can tick of the things I was able to get, and leave any I couldn't for next time. Fine, no problem. This is also fine for me that these types of subtasks are not seen when I do reviews etc, I don't need to see the items on the list, just the task of getting the items.
  
  So, my first point to mention is, and I see this as a bug-and it needs to be fixed:
  
  1. when a task is marked as completed, or to be deleted, it should prompt you that you have uncompleted subtasks in that task before doing either. Currently it does not warn you at all. So, I have to actually name the task: do not delete, or subtasks below, etc to remind me. It is far to easy to lose things currently.
  
  But the other and much more powerful potential use of subtasks is as subsequent/next action tasks that cannot be actioned yet.
  
  2. Some indication that a task has subtasks at all should be added, this should be visible when viewing the main task in the view window
  
  Further/more complex use of subtasks:
  
  I would like an option for these subtasks to be proper subsequent tasks if desired. Many of us have work arounds to deal with this for now, (as all stated above) but it's not ideal. I would rather have it easier not to see any tasks in my everyday review of my next list, etc. I would like all the subsequent, in this case if implemented, they would be the subtasks for each task, to be hidden unless you choose to see all associated of that task in it's edit view. Because these subtasks/subsequent tasks have a previous step to be completed before I they are actionable at all, I don't need to see them.
  
  Currently I create projects to deal with this, and priorities to help me categorize and basically hide subtasks that are not actionable yet. But this is not intuitive, takes more time, hence taking away from my productivity. It's not a fluid way of working and as pointed out above. But this doesn't work well as the tasks are still always visible.
  
  Also, I don't really feel all of my tasks that have multiple steps need to be a project as such, that is what I am currenlty doing, but this is tedious, they are almost always a part of a larger project already, and they have their own subtasks to complete, but to view that as a separate project as well gets too complicated and just isn't always necessary.
  
  This is how I would like to do subsequent tasks with current subtasks ability:
  
  Example:
  Project: Setup new office area
  
  Then create a Task in the project, that also has other tasks in this project not just the computer workstation
  
  Task: clear area of spare room to set up computer workspace, now I would add all tags, priorities, project etc
  
  Next, you would have an option to: add subtasks to this task.
  
  Now enter all subsequent tasks I know of at the moment to do after that task, and can add to this list whenever needed. Each should be tagged/etc as desired.
  
  Then it would be good once I have completed the first task of clearing the area of the room, to be able to mark the task to complete it, it is completed, but then automatically the first subtask on the subtask list becomes the actual task item for this list.
  
  The subtasks would not be visible at all until they are actual tasks at the top of the list.
  
  Is this how others would like subtasks/subsequent tasks to work?
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• Folke  (积分：2425)01/19/2014 07:51
  13 floor

  Lisa,
  
  I agree that subtasks are not really suitable for independent tasks, but more as checklist items for a particular task.
  
  As for subsequent actions I am doubtful whetehre subtasks is the best "vehicel" to start form. They (currently) can have neither contexts nor tags nor priorities etc. They are, in fact, more to be seen as checklist items.
  
  The solutions for subsequent tasks is very easy. Just have an "inactive" state for tasks within projects (just as for projects). If you drag tasks there they will become invisible everywhere outside of the project.
  
  That is all it really takes. But ideally there are some nice little extras that should at least be considered:
  
  - the inactive section should be manually sortable (one of the truly useful places to implement manual sorting. Makes reviewing much easier )
  
  - the inactive section could be automated such that the top task is automatically put into an active state (Next list etc) when there are no active tasks in the project. (requires manual sorting)
  
  - if automated, it would be very nice if the subsequent section allowed you to predesignate the future box for each task (if not, Next would be the default, and you could use prefixes or other workarounds to more easily identify the non-next and could manually drag these to the right box.)
  
  - it would be very nice to have a two-tier structure in the subsequent section to allow for improved visibility of the near-future tasks. Some users (perhaps most) may even want the near-future tasks to show up in the regular "Box lists" (Next, Waiting etc), so there should then be some preference settings for this as well as some form of graphical indication etc. I think the distinction must always be made manually whether a particular task is "near" or "distant". This would be a suitable thing to do in the weekly review.
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